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Thread: STRONG hooks for wooly buggers...

  1. #1
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    Default STRONG hooks for wooly buggers...

    So I have a hook bending problem...

    I've been leaning back into some broad shouldered lake 'bows recently and have become reacquainted with a crippling hook bending problem. I have a diamond hone and know how to use it, but still I strike to send the hook home only to strip in a 'bugger with a bent hook.

    Anyone have a suggestion for a strong, sharp, and barbless (not a requirement but it would be nice...) 3x down eye hook?

    I love the SPBL line that TMC has, but alas no 3x long...

    Help?

    _SHig

  2. #2
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    In fly shops most Woolly Buggers are tied on high quality Japanese 2x or 3x long standard wire hooks with a down eye and a perfect bend.

    Most people don't have trouble with them even for big Alaskan trout and Steelhead when using Egg-sucking Buggers tied on these same hooks.

    Another reality is that most people do not sharpen the points of Japanese hooks until they become compromised.
    Bill Kiene

    Semi-retired in Davis, CA

    530/753-5267

    billkiene@kiene.com

  3. #3
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    You neglected to mention which hook you are bending. The ONLY 3XL 2XH barbless hook I know of is the Tiemco TMC5263BL. If you are bending those or the Mustad equivalent, and you actually need a heavier hook (as opposed to modifying your fish fighting style/technique), you have a number of alternatives you could try. One possibility is to downsize the hook length and upsize the hook size. So for a 3XL #6, you could use a 2XL #4 or 1XL #2 hook, for example, and get a signifcant increase in wire gauge (and gape) for the same length fly. You might also consider using an Articulated Woolly Bugger instead of the standard tie. A shorter shank rear hook, something like a Gamakatsu Octopus, is much less likely to bend. For smaller flies, something like a TMC2499SPBL would be a reasonable choice, although there are a number of possible candidates out there. Finally, you could upgrade to steelhead iron like the TMC700, but that would probably be overkill.
    -JD

  4. #4
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    Okay, after doing a bit of looking, I have to admit that I was using TMC 2312s. I love the "buggy" look of the curved hooks so I was using size 10 2312s. Turns out 2312s are 1x fine wire. 200Rs are standard wire, but longer shank for the same size hook. Perhaps I can use a size 12 200R, but the size 12 200R standard wire is the same as a size 10 2312 1x fine. Only thing is that the hook gap is a bit smaller. Regardless, it's clear that I have failed to do my homework on this one!

    Also, though the curved hooks catch fishermen, I'd be willing to bet a standard straight shank hook will probably catch the same number of fish as a curved one. Ya think?

    Finally, I'm doing all the bending on the hookset, not the fight. Once it's on like Donkey Kong, I'm good. I think I'm getting unlucky and digging the straight point of the hook into something hard which puts a lot of torque on the bend of the hook and it tweaks. A beefier wire and a well maintained point should help.

    I'll have to spend some quality time in the hook aisle soon...

    _SHig

  5. #5
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    Hmmm, I have Daichi's that seem alright. I'll get the number. Not sure what I've used in the past.... I need to do some serious hook shopping too.... I have a lot of the "niche" style hooks no one else seems to like and get discontinued.... sad cuz some of them were great hooks.

    What I need to do is write my damn fly tying inventory access database or get a better memory I guess....
    "Did you catch anything".........."No, did you"........

    "Hey man, mind if I fish here?"....."Yes"...."Thanks man!"
    grgoding@yahoo.com

  6. #6
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    ShigSpeed:

    You have two problems then, too light a hook AND too heavy a hook set, by your own admission. The TMC200R is only going to be a marginal improvement at best (i.e. standard wire v. 1XF) and there have always been questions about its hooking power, especially in the smaller sizes. If you must have a curve shank hook, something like a Daiichi 1760 (what Jgoding uses?) or a TFS2305 might be a good choice.

    A straight shank hook works just fine, and the TMC5263BL is barbless, and therefore my favorite streamer hook (and Kiene's has them by the 100), but use whatever you like best...just make sure you are use the right hook for the right task.
    -JD

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    ShigSpeed:

    You have two problems then, too light a hook AND too heavy a hook set, by your own admission. The TMC200R is only going to be a marginal improvement at best (i.e. standard wire v. 1XF) and there have always been questions about its hooking power, especially in the smaller sizes. If you must have a curve shank hook, something like a Daiichi 1760 (what Jgoding uses?) or a TFS2305 might be a good choice.

    A straight shank hook works just fine, and the TMC5263BL is barbless, and therefore my favorite streamer hook (and Kiene's has them by the 100), but use whatever you like best...just make sure you are use the right hook for the right task.
    Oooh, I like the 1760! Gotta get some of those and play...

    Thanks!

    _SHig

  8. #8
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    I don't like tmc5263 with 3X length anymore for streamers like wooly buggers for big fish. I've found the longer shaft flexes too much under load which opens the gap. This allows a heavy fish to slip off the hook set even though the hook is not permanently deformed. This has happened to me more times that I care to admit.

    So what I use now is tmc5262 with 2x length in one size larger than what I would have used with the longer hook. This provides a bigger hook gap and larger wire to handle big fish for the same shaft length and fly size I was using before. And if I want the shaft curved, I just bend it myself so I don't have to buy a special hook just to get a curve.

  9. #9
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    1760 is the 200r look alike? Yeah, but I think I have some straight standard streamer hooks too.... 1720, had to look them up, 3X long, heavy wire. There's the 1750 with a straight eye too and it's 4X long. Personally, i'm leaning towards trying tube flies though to get away from long shank hooks.

    Wow, there's also the 2370.... 7X long...... being half asian..... nevermind, bad joke.

    I ordered some Diachi 1150's the other day to check them out.... I dunno, most people don't like Daichi or think they're cheap but I've found them to be great hooks and they have a nice selection whereas my go to brand TMC seems to discontinue more styles and sizes every year and some of the more popular hooks for certain patterns just plain suck or are too light wired.... like the 206 bl which is what i'm replacing with the 1150's
    Last edited by Jgoding; 11-16-2009 at 02:55 PM.
    "Did you catch anything".........."No, did you"........

    "Hey man, mind if I fish here?"....."Yes"...."Thanks man!"
    grgoding@yahoo.com

  10. #10
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    shig-i dont ever like to use 200r's. try just the good ol' tiemco 5263. If you break those, you have bigger issues to deal with.

    i also have had no issues with the daichi 1760.

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